Alphabay was never decentralized. They had the """"goal"""" to launch a decentralized market, which of course was bullshit but decentralized markets do (or did) already exist. OpenBazaar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBazaar

ooh, cool! i didn't know about openbazaar. so p2p can totally be done, it just has to be done correctly?

It can be done but typically results in a loss of anonymity as with OpenBazaar because every client acts as a server.

Yep, Your correct they were ment to become that was some fancy wording to get more trust. I remember now.

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Can you already exit-scam you annoy me

AB.2 was a operation ran by the feds de snake was locked up or long gone not hard to recover a pgp when a manhunt was on for the first AB any real criminal would of retired or would of came back and go full throtel untill you exit scam or get ur door kicked in whole thing was shady and feds do elaberate operations all the time just like : operation trojan horse were they opened up a private messanger app and took down alot of people and a fuck ton of drugs even submarines, wharehouses full of drugs and money international crime at its best

right, so a p2p market can only really "work" if there are anti-scam protections implemented ie escrow?

seems 100% like a solvable issue with cryptography. i mean, we have atomic swaps, why not standard escrow?

With standard escrow there is a middleman so it's not decentralized anymore, is it?

sure, but the middleman doesn't need to be a "man", it can be a cryptographic protocol that locks funds until both parties have agreed to spend. like bisq or something. then you run into privacy/anon issues. it's an interesting concept to tackle but i think it's feasible.

What if the vendor didn't ship the product, but claims that he did? how they would reach an agreement?

that's a very good point, and i can't think of a way to solve that right now actually. i totally think it has to be possible

i like the idea... but how would you incorporate physical items with atomic swaps? if that gets solved, this would be awesome

not really solved, but i feel like vendors could gain reputations, like we see in localmonero. it would be very useful to have some sort of feedback system on-chain, which is difficult but maybe could be possible if feedback cost a fee, to prevent spam. i'm no genius, but it seems doable! :)

true, but... with anonymity, you could have the same guy replying to himself and saying, like, "this seller is legit!!" multiple times (obviously in a more believable manner but you get what i'm saying) and it looks like people are rating this seller well, but in actuality it's just the scammer.

yea exactly that's where the difficulty comes in. You could include burn fees for feedback, but then that incentivizes not leaving any feedback. it's kind of a dilemma and probably most reputation would have to be built offchain which breaks the point. :P

true! this seems like an interesting problem to try and solve though... i'll work on it!

tbh ive probably never in my life used an escrow, always FF and only like once I had an issue. never disputed anything. call me lucky.

sorry for the late response, but how is buyer scamming prevention handled right now? what happens if a buyer, who received the product, goes to the market and asks for a refund? will they just get it, no further questions?

2/2 MS in - terms of buyer/vendor as the required signatures - doesnt really work because if there is a dispute with the order, either party can just refuse to sign and lock it up and market cant even intervene. 2/2 MS in which the market and vendor's signatures are the required ones is a better option, though not without potential for abuse. Versus Market offered a 2/2 MS option with that setup. What is the purpose to a market though? It depends. What is the purpose to a centralized traditional escrow market? User protection but its a gamble. Historically, we always know how that ends. What is the purpose to a 2/3 Multi Sig Market? True user protection, though at the cost of slightly more effort and learning. Until more users are willing to put in the effort to learn and perform multi sig, the merry-go-round of exit scams will continue and this question will not have a clear answer.

maybe it's one of those things like tsa searches and security through obscurity, where the act itself doesn't really help but the fact it's there deters people? like why would you want to try and scam on a platform that has tons of protections in place if the buyer chooses, ya know?

ive lost more on market then I have to dds

hard to believe you, but i do, how long have you been ordering? and about how many deals? its an important detail,. Myself as example, made a lot of orders since a bit more than 3 years, the % of not received orders is low but last 2 weeks or 3, i made 5 orders, well, I only get 2 , other 3 are disputed and the other one i was 50% refunded, i am pissed off

the only time i got 'scammed' was with pressed xanax or xtc pills, i got completely different substance, i never bothered to dispute it and I learned my lesson. since then i only deal with pharma grade stuff and i usually buy in bulk + dhl packstation expedited shipping so i dont have to care about anything and I stick to a few selected vendors that I trust. + be from europe.

Usually there is either a reship or partial refund. If the buyer has more disputes it is often tagged by the vendors as a persona non grata.

i2p? Such as /d/i2p (sub you dork) An i2p market would be a DN market that is based on i2p or maintains an i2p mirror. This mirror would be on the i2p network, which is a network designed for anonymity like the tor network. I think what you meant to ask is "but how wotks a P2P market¿?" Which is more relevant to this discussion. In that situation, read the rest of this topic, including about openbazzar. P2P markets are a novel idea and therefore there isn't a standard or notable successful example. openbazzar would be the closest but it can't stop getting repeatedly aborted like a chinese baby destined for dodgeball greatness dodging that American-made* hanger. The gist is that instead of users shopping at a DN marketplace controlled by a group, it's a decentralized market system that's not beholden to a central power. There are advantages and disadvantages, as well as ideas stoked about implementation, in this thread,and in the past on the DN generally. Whether its progression was real or not, the /d/AlphaBay decentralized market was at least a consolidation of a lot of ideas on the subject. The AB forums the same. (RIP) * The chinese might make everything else but the US still has the market cornered on abortion equipment. USAUSAUSA!

ok, I am going to read the thread you told me, thanks mate

talking generally, as you may know, people are usually afraid of DD, myself as is normal, have to be so sure that the vendor i am dealing is really whosays he is, in other words, to do DD you have to state previously a great ot at least a honest reputation to let people trust you, as is the perfect field for scammers to take easily the money and run

exactly, yeah!! i saw the bohemia account comment here and be completely against it because, obviously, a solution like this would cost markets millions or more. but for vendors and buyers, it would be a big win! regarding your networking concerns, maybe this could be solved with a partly centralised-partly decentralised thing? i think a system could be made with monero selective transparency somehow, but i'm unsure of the specifics at the moment.

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